The devil went down to Utah
Francis Cardinal George has been hobnobbing with the Mormons. Apparently, he thinks that we have a lot in common.
Cardinal George, in remarks to a forum at Brigham-Young University in Provo, Utah, said:
Catholics and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must continue to stand together as a “vital bulwark” against those in American society who want to “reduce religion to a purely private reality.”
When the government fails to protect the consciences of its citizens, it falls to religious bodies to defend them.
True religious freedom means not just freedom to worship or “individual conscience rights as long as you don’t make anyone unhappy,” but the right to “influence the public square.”
Both our communities have prospered in a nation that respects religious freedom and recognizes that government should never stand between its citizens and almighty God.
Note well the following section; this is the collaboration that spawned the warm fuzzies between Cardinal George and the Mormon Prophets:
Although he did not refer directly to the successful 2008 campaign to overturn same-sex marriage in California, in which Catholics and Mormons were prominent, Cardinal George said both religious communities believe that “every single person is made in God’s image and must be respected.”
“But that does not mean you accept everything they do,” he said. “The relationship is at question here, not the persons.”
He also said that those who “have gay people in their families, as I do … have to be there for them and love them.”
It seems that, based on the Cardinal’s remarks, all that the American Catholic Church and the Mormon organization share is a common political ideology.
Reading about this happy meeting called to mind a similar sort of meeting that others through the centuries have been purported to have held.
A Pact with the Devil and a Nobleman in Pignerole in 1676
Let the Mormons have their political conquests. We have a bigger, better Kingdom to build.
Pax et bonum.
[Quotes and photo of Cardinal George, source]
[Pact with the devil, image source]
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It seems that the good cardinal, along with his boss, believes that the Church must be allowed freedom for itself – “to influence the public square” – but is in no way required to grant the same freedom to those within the Church who faithfully and respectfully dissent from its teachings. Would that not be called hypocrisy?
Aye, indeed. But I say it goes beyond that. Say, for instance, the Mormon church still practiced polygamy as a path to salvation. Would we then be obligated to stand up for the religious freedom of Mormons to marry multiple partners? Based on the Cardinal’s logic, yes, we would. Why, then, do we stomp on the rights of those Christians who believe that the justice of God cries out for civil marriage rights for gay couples?
“Why, then, do we stomp on the rights of those Christians who believe that the justice of God cries out for civil marriage rights for gay couples?”
IAWTC
(I had to use Urban Dictionary to figure out “IAWTC.” How sad is that!)
Whats Urban Dictionary?
lol!
Wow. Short, concise and a shoot straight to the core. Great analysis, great finale and great post.
Unfortunately I do not agree with your comment, Thom, and I think it doesn’t get the point of the Cardinal’s remarks. According to his logic we don’t have the obligation to support any Mormon intention to legalize polygamy but we do have the duty to support their effort in lobbying politics. Just like Voltaire supposedly said: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Cardinal George also said:
“This happened in Proposition 8 in California … [to] respond by thuggery, by quasi-fascist tactics [rather] than the common good, our whole society stands in great jeopardy. Mormons and Catholics take pride on our citizenship as Americans and our legacy of service to the nation.”
That’s a fine display of respect for those who disagree with your political views, Cardinal George. Rather than name call, why not simply name specific examples of how Catholics and Mormons were unjustly excluded from the public square in the context of the Prop 8 contest? I mean, you specifically mention Prop 8, so what are your specific concerns re that contest?
Thanks, Trudy. I try, I try. :-p
Ralf, it’s one thing to support their right to lobby, but it’s something else entirely to join them.
Chino, thank you for raising that point. There were calls of suppression and discrimination all around, but I saw not one example of it.
I swear, you’d think the only way we had available to us to usher in the Kingdom of God was the political system, any political system. I guess the first 300 years or so, the Church (I mean all God’s people in Christ) didn’t get much done – pitiful. Far, far too much weight is given to this means of “getting things done” in the world. And yes, I’m pretty comfortable being a bit of a Catholic anabaptist in that way.
Alan, I agree completely. I’m a little Anabaptist/Mennonite in my thinking, myself.
Thom, I don’t think we are obliged to join “them”, though Cardinal George does have the right to express his opinion (he’s not my local bishop anyhow).
I agree with this anabaptist point of view, but that’s also a quite Franciscan standpoint. As the rule states (2.14), a Secular Franciscan ought to try to work for a more humane world, but it doesn’t say how – that’s Franciscan freedom. Be it as a politician or a unionist or a member of any NGO, that’s your choice and response to God’s call.
St. Francis didn’t get many things done, did he? But he tried, writing a letter to a king.
It’s not the goal of Cardinal George I’m not in accordance with, it’s the displayed attitude.
instead of “this anabaptist” I wanted to write “your anabaptist”
Relax folks! You’re reading more than the cardinal intended in his remarks. What he said was, “Catholics and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must continue to stand together as a “vital bulwark” against those in American society who want to “reduce religion to a purely private reality.”
What does that mean?
I suggest that you look to the United Kingdom where a Bill has already gone through the House of Commons and is now in the House of Lords which will require Catholoic Schoolks in England receiving state support to teach how to use contraception and how to procure an a abortion. Thehy mahy teach the pro-life side but not to the exclusion of the pro-choice side.
Cardinal George is concerned about such developments and well he might be.
Sorry guys! I should have checked for typos.
Ralf and David, I take your points, but the whole thing just makes me very uncomfortable. He wasn’t appearing as Francis; he was appearing as The Church.
Completely not related to your post, but we veil crosses starting on Ash Wednesday, and we’ve dimmed the lighting on the reredos so as to not illumine the adornment of our statues. There may be covering them in the future. Apparently we don’t veil the lenten cross which is very sparse: the outline of a cross and a crown of thorns hanging on the bars.
Thom, as a Cardinal archbisihop and head of the US Conference of bishops it is his job to speak for the Church. St. Franmcis was only a lowly deaocn. Perhaps he new what he was doing when he chose not to go higher.
Joseph, very interesting. Our local practice has been to veil (in violet) after Laetare, and then in red for Palm Sunday.
David, when I said “Francis,” I meant the Cardinal speaking for himself, not the saint.
Joseph, this sounds like what was done in the Sarum Rite. What colour are the veils?
This should NOT be done in the Roman Rite.
I don’t understand you, Thom – is it about partner in business (Mormons) or is it about particular event/case (probably Prop 8 in California)?
BTW, thanks for your concerns about my life – work, family etc. I want to let you know that everything is fine with my life. It’s a pity you weren’t able to tell it directly to me. Instead you chose Kevin’s blog. As for my, alleged, gay obsession – well, just because I find you as a curious case of someone I hadn’t encountered before – gay Catholic – that doesn’t mean I’m obsessed with gays. Come on, you really believe in that? I would say it’s quite contrary – I don’t read gay websites/magazines, don’t go to gay bars, leave the city when a gay parade takes place and get back when it’s over – because I’m not interested. In fact, if your blog was a gay blog, I wouldn’t even bother to read it. But I must admit that there is some kind of gay obsession among some Catholics and it can be experienced, for example, at Catholic Answers’ forums. That’s one of the reasons I’m not able to read it, or have difficulties to read it.
Peter, there was no real way to address you directly previously- I didn’t even have a name for you!
I apologize if I caused offense, but I was truly puzzled with you. Anyway, thanks for sticking around.
Thanks so much for this Thom. As an ex-Mormon, all I can say is that your picture is terribly apt. In the Mormon endowment ceremony in the Temple, a bizarre sort of “passion play” is enacted about the Eden story, wherein Satan appears with a “so-called Christian priest” (it’s a guy in an alb and stole) as a “paid whore of Mammon.”
This is a fascinating collection of quotes. Here: http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm
Remember, anything a Mormon Prophet or Apostle says is considered infallible. Catholic officials should think twice before getting in bed with the Mormons.
Eric, thank you so much for those quotes. I smell another post coming. And thanks also for the warning. We ought to heed it well.
Sorry to not follow up, they’re veiled in purple from Ash Wednesday on, at The General Theological Seminary of The Episcopal Church (and St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Troy, AL).
[...] Posted on March 4, 2010, 4:24 pm, by admin, under Catholic Christianity, Christendom, Politics. Last Wednesday I wrote about Francis Cardinal George, Archbishop of Chicago, speaking at a Mormon conference in Provo, Utah, about a [...]